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Childhood trauma and its consequences
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 Post subject: Miscellaneous Video
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:15 am 
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Most TV in those days really sucked. Candid Camera was like fresh air sometimes.

Would chimpanzees behave the same way?
Steve



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 Post subject: Re: Miscellaneous Video
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:14 am 
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End of the World Cult

1/5


2/5


3/5


4/5


5/5


Thoughts:
    The fundamental difference between a cult and mainstream religion is volume, of the number of people it controls. "Respect" follows volume.
    Just as with government and Education, trauma-rooted sociopathy lies at the base of each and every religion.
    No pill can change or could have prevented the fact that the good look good, the bad look bad, and that the very bad look good.
    Any therapy that respects religion is part of the problem.
    Any person who respects religion is part of the problem.
    Insanity doesn't require religion, but religion definitely requires insanity.
    What's good and right about people exists in spite of religion, not because of it.
    Religion lets a token amount of it's host's health survive so that it will maintain the means with which to reproduce.
    We've been screwed to have been stuck with a world as fucking nuts as this one we've got. We should be absolutely pissed as hell.
    What's stupid in the world is nothing but a con game, a lie, an obvious one.
    It's time for religion to be over.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Miscellaneous Video
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:40 am 
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We're just monkeys...



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 Post subject: Re: Miscellaneous Video
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:41 pm 
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Did anyone ever make a video of this 1970's cult with a belief system based on dream interpretation & psychology? In the real world, almost everyone is blind to their own cranky beliefs.... especially trauma-rooted beliefs concerning salvation/healing. It's a million times easier to see what's cranky in other people. Wait a minute! The world population is around 6.7 billion now, and only half of them are children. So the truth is that it's well over 3 billion times easier to see what's cranky in other people. Not that everyone is saying.... "My belief system is the only one that sees the true picture." because that would acknowledge that it's a 'belief'. What they say to themselves - and anyone else who will listen - is "I know the true reason why the world is in a mess." The hallmark of a cultist is that they react very strongly and negatively if anyone asks for objective evidence to support what they believe.... like peer-reviewed scientific evidence, for example. Just to ask for hard evidence is enough to trigger an outpouring of abusive redneck language like "stupid", "fucking", calling the questioner a "shit", etc.... Like parents who pour foul, loathsome insults on a child daring to ask an awkward question. Isn't that what's meant by the Repetition Compulsion? Or am I getting it mixed up with Acting Out? What I mean is.... therapy or no therapy, people usually turn out like their parents. Cultists, especially, are people who like to preach to others in a self-righteous way about salvation/healing.

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 Post subject: Re: Miscellaneous Video
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:57 pm 
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Bernard,

The problem with stupid fucking evidence is that it doesn't count. This morning, for instance, after reasoning "Well if Wikipedia has an article on baking (cookie) sheets then it surely has one on earwax" I checked, finding my hunch to be much more correct than I had first come close to imagining. And what I discovered absolutely more electrifying. You see, according to the article (can something open to edit by just anyone really be trustworthy I sometimes wonder?) earwax, a substance produced by all mammals, turns out by nature to be downright Mendellian! That's right! It's like if you can touch your tongue to your nose or not, or bend your first thumb joint back 90 degrees (like I can!), grossing out those of your friends who are unable and, underneath, jealous.

Or wait a minute...I hate to rewrite that part about Mendel but since I'm a fearless non-scientific non-professional I guess I don't really need to. The important thing is that earwax has definite clearly visible, easily discernible genetic characteristics, the clearest being that while African and European earwax is orange/brown, East Asians' and Native Americans' earwax is - while still fairly sick, really - transparent, or nearly so, judging from the photograph.

Who cares? Well in the end no one, I guess, since despite the fact that all evidence points to the first, unquestionably time-honored and favorite use of language being simply that of pulling poo from our sorry (perhaps just bored?) monkey asses and handing it to or flinging it in the direction of everyone in sight as though there is no tomorrow, it is still not (and I suppose never will be) possible to prove that miracles have never happened.

But (and I don't like feeling like I'm picking on them, all I have ever known have really been decent sorts but they provide such a clear case of this phenomenon) 12 million Mormons (much like everybody, really, in one area of thought or other) disregard evidence in favor of "believing" Joseph's Smith's obviously made up crap about Jews migrating to the New World thousands of years ago and becoming the people we now call "Native Americans". But they can't be Jewish because THEY GOT THE WRONG COLOR EAR WAX!!

"Evidence" is defeated all the time. Or at least is a very relative thing. Ask any Sophist, attorney or wrongly convicted felon. And academic "peers" often seem to me to be mostly just interested in going around getting approbated by each other, seemingly aware on some level that they otherwise are in fact just as musician David Crosby reportedly described them: autostroking dickheads.

Science is so often touted as the means of "uncovering Trvth" that it's starting to make me sick, actually. Sure there's lots of stuff that people don't know, and science is good for figuring out great junk like that. But can it really be the means of ending humanity's seemingly unending love affair with JUST MAKING SHIT UP LEFT AND RIGHT? Isn't just more people telling the truth more of the time to START with more of an answer?

I lied to a girl, once, when I was four. She was three, probably, and very pretty. It was the only time we'd met. She had come up to me trustingly, just as someone to play with. I told her immediately that there was a mean bear who liked to eat kids hiding in the trees at the edge of the field we were standing in. I think that may be the worst thing I have ever done in my life. I'm not completely sure why I did it but I know I had no idea she would react the way she did. It was one of the two times I can remember in which a girl was able to outrun me, even more remarkable for the fact that she was screaming and crying like crazy as she did it. Yelling "I WAS KIDDING!!" after her didn't make any difference at all. I sure hope she's over it.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Miscellaneous Video
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:10 pm 
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The recent post lambasting the Debunking site that I alluded to, made the bogus accusation that the site author advocates medication in place of primal therapy. No, he doesn't.

The peer-review system isn't perfect. It tends to resist new findings which upset the apple cart of established explanatory models.... but in the long run hard evidence prevails. Paradigm shifts do occur every now and again. The alternative is "faith-based" truth.

Baking sheets? Earwax? Bears in trees? Reminded me of R.D. Laing's story about a patient who had to learn to *love* her mother's obscure reasoning and non-sequiturs.... as a survival strategy during childhood.

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 Post subject: Re: Miscellaneous Video
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:18 am 
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Hm.

R. D. Laing not-following. True story: Maybe three years ago I'm watching Letterman or somebody, late-night. Out walks Tom Cruise. Everybody claps, he sits and they get into it about psychiatric drugs or whatever. The usual. That runs its course, Tom calms down and leaves, everybody's clapping and Letterman stands up, gestures toward his curtain, and says with no smile at all far as I could tell: "And now ladies and gentlemen please welcome R. D. Laing." I blink at least three times and quit breathing, trying my absolute durndest to stay calm and think. Out walks this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artie_Lange

But I still had to wonder. Somebody there had to know what they'd done.

Yeah it crossed my mind the other day that maybe I'm compelled to transform and then act-out my mother's narcissism, condemned to show unto others what was boop-shoobie as hell, really. Except different, a little, and hopefully without harm. And it's JUST a theory. But I'm a chair-fixer guy so wtf big deal.

Anyhow: okay we're all monkeys but we vary wildly in degrees of coolness:



And this Miller flyer was news to me:



Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Miscellaneous Video
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:44 pm 
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Steve wrote:
and says with no smile at all far as I could tell: "And now ladies and gentlemen please welcome R. D. Laing." I blink at least three times and quit breathing, trying my absolute durndest to stay calm and think. Out walks this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artie_Lange

Of course, without having seen it, I can only guess, but with slightly slurred speech on the part of the host and slight inattention on the part of the viewer "Artee" could sound like "R.D."

Quote:
Anyhow: okay we're all monkeys but we vary wildly in degrees of coolness

Yep, I go along with the "we're all monkeys" idea. I just feel sad that all the non-primal-people who wanted to discuss the impact of child abuse on individuals and society - on this forum - went away. I learned a lot of new things from the threads that really took off. One example: a mention of Barbara McClintock in the Genetics sub-forum. Scorned by her peers at first, but eventually a Nobel prize-winner. And recently there's more to upset the apple cart....

DNA Is Not Destiny:
http://discovermagazine.com/2006/nov/cover/
The Ghost in Your Genes:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/program ... enes.shtml

A paradigm shift on the way?

There were interesting bits of news in the Press & Media sub-forum too (video threads belong there). But it really does look as if the forum has shrunk to a small circle of people.... with proselytizers of the primal faith creating a bad impression for first-time visitors who are not cultists.

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 Post subject: Re: Miscellaneous Video
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:49 pm 
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Bernard, you mention often cults and particular the Primal cult. But what about the cults in the form of traditional schooling? The cults on the working place in many corporations? That's where real brainwashing takes place. Not to mention the role of the parents in child-rearing. If a child is not allowed to be critical, to question, and gets punished or threatened with it, then this person wouldn't see anything wrong in similar situations later in life. This happens to millions and millions of people. Primal cults or Scientology are too small to even make a dent. People have always been susceptible to their environment. And unfortunately people are sensitive towards negative influences. I'm not calling this site a primal site, and feel free too promote it on other places on the internet. The main reason why this forum isn't attracting a lot of people is because it doesn't side with the parents. Those forums that are very busy are because they protect parenting, and people visit it because they want to hear that it's not their fault, not their responsibility. Some first-timers have told me that they aren't comfortable posting because the level of dialogue is so high and they feel they aren't informed properly to participate in a discussion. But it's really all about one's own experiences, ideas and views.

Dennis

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 Post subject: Re: Miscellaneous Video
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:22 pm 
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Dennis wrote:
But what about the cults in the form of traditional schooling? The cults on the working place in many corporations? That's where real brainwashing takes place. Not to mention the role of the parents in child-rearing. If a child is not allowed to be critical, to question, and gets punished or threatened with it, then this person wouldn't see anything wrong in similar situations later in life. This happens to millions and millions of people.

There's brainwashing in all those situations. That's what I'd like to see discussed more on the forum. And more tips about documentaries, interviews and news of campaigns against all those things.

When I use the word "cultists" in connection with primal therapy I mean it the sense described here: http://wallsofsilence.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?t=28
I'm not restricting it to actual cults like the Center for Feeling Therapy or the Church of Scientology (Dianetics).

I'm using the word to refer to people who have never done therapy at Arthur Janov's Center but nevertheless say that Primal Therapy works without presenting convincing evidence (claims by Janov himself are not unbiased). An appallingly bad advertisement for official primal therapy came from a member of the forum who stopped posting here a while ago. He went to the Arthur Janov's New York Primal Institute in the early 1980s (Vivian Janov closed it down as soon as she took over) and was still primalling a quarter of a century later.

That's not all. There are people who blame the victim if someone says they had a bad experience with a therapist trained by Arthur Janov.... that's another thing that reflects very badly on primal supporters. Then there are the people who use abusive, insulting language on the forum (not only primal supporters). As the moderator, you could make some rules and enforce them: No abusive language (ban certain words). No blaming the victim under any circumstances. No unverified claims for the effectiveness of primal therapy outside of the "Personal Stories" sub-forum.

Dennis wrote:
I'm not calling this site a primal site, and feel free too promote it on other places on the internet. The main reason why this forum isn't attracting a lot of people is because it doesn't side with the parents.

You changed the name of this forum from "Primal Forum" to "Walls of Silence" in mid-2007. I figured you changed it because the "Primal" label didn't help to attract new people in large numbers. I don't agree with you that the main reason is because the forum doesn't side with the parents. Do you know how many blogs side with the child? I know of quite a few. I learned about one of them from the wallsofsilence Press & Media sub-forum: http://www.parentsbehavingbadly.com/ Take a look at the number of comments visitors post. Alice Miller receives a daily stream of readers' mail.... and not only in English. There are hundreds more letters in the German and French sections. If only one tenth as many people started posting here the forum would blossom overnight.

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 Post subject: Re: Miscellaneous Video
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:40 am 
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If the video loads slow try the link following.



http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=1429754

Non-lofty, I-don't-join-ME-no-dadburned-cults, ill-informed but nevertheless-recognizing-the-effects-of-child-abuse-in-society-since-basically-I-prolly-got-more-than-two-brain-cells-to-rub-together Steve

Oh hold it. Here's something I did about 2004 for a friend.

Oh okay, a "former friend":


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 Post subject: Re: Miscellaneous Video
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:13 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
No unverified claims for the effectiveness of primal therapy outside of the "Personal Stories" sub-forum.

Of course, I shouldn't have restricted that to primal therapy. There are other therapy methods - apart from primal-regressive - which address childhood maltreatment and trauma. As far as I know, none of them has been proven - by independent research - to be more effective than any other.

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 Post subject: Re: Miscellaneous Video
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:23 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
That's what I'd like to see discussed more on the forum. And more tips about documentaries, interviews and news of campaigns against all those things.


The movie club will be paused for the time being due to a lack of interest. I can post links to interesting documentaries and such. Latest one is Michael Moore's Slacker Uprising, which can be legally downloaded for free for those living in the USA or Canada. I haven't seen it yet but will soon... If there's a particular documentary that you like to see, you can post a request.

Quote:
I learned about one of them from the wallsofsilence Press & Media sub-forum: http://www.parentsbehavingbadly.com/ Take a look at the number of comments visitors post.


The last post there is from June 25 and comments are often just random irrelevant blurbs. Though it's important to give attention to the extreme cases of child abuse, most of the media do mention it. I think it's because parents like to feel they are better than the obvious bad ones. Telling your child, for example, that there's an almighty god is very abusive as well, but that's a bigger wall to break down.

Dennis

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 Post subject: Re: Miscellaneous Video
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:40 pm 
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Slacker Uprising looks interesting. I'm gonna check it out. TRAILER for Slacker Uprising:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJEtX9m2J8k

Quote:
The last post there is from June 25 and comments are often just random irrelevant blurbs.

The site owner says quite clearly at the top of the page: "I'd like to assure you all that the site is not dead... and will back in full force shortly." In the meantime there's http://badbreeders.net/ - And I'd like to point out that random irrelevant blurbs get posted on this forum too from time-to-time. Even in this thread.

Quote:
I think it's because parents like to feel they are better than the obvious bad ones.

Both sites are about extreme cases, it's true. But if parents are visiting these sites they're not waiting for coverage in their regular newspaper. They're visiting a blog to find it. My take on the matter is.... if more parents become aware of the extreme cases, then in other settings they might notice the kind of slightly less extreme cases they didn't notice in the past. Progress in small steps.

As for parents indoctrinating children with religion I don't know if there's an easy answer. Leaders of major world religions have spoken out against spanking in recent years - The Vatican, Islamic leaders, etc. - but that's not enough. There was a very active thread about the religious backlash a couple of years ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Miscellaneous Video
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:16 pm 
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I liked the journalist's opinion piece at the end of the "Top Psychiatric Researcher Dr. Biederman Caught Lying" article. In fact, I liked the way the whole thing was written. I'm adding my response in this thread because I have a tip which relates to the title of the topic.... Miscellaneous Videos. The following site has free full length documentaries about human rights and social issues....

http://freedocumentaries.org/

Century of Self was a great series on TV.

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