Sinead or ?
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Author:  Steve [ Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sinead or ?

I hope Proudhon was nice to kids.


Author:  Steve [ Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sinead or ?

Wanted to let you know I looked into "Heroin", few weeks back. Ex had it on both "Animal Serenade" and I guess "Rock 'n Roll Animal"(?). She had to explain to me that the playing faster and faster part represents the rush. I listened to both albums completely. He's weird dude. "Heroin's" only two chords. Forget the tabs, if you can play a 3-chord song, leave one out and you can play Heroin. No way can I relate though, would be dumb to try, but thanks for imagining I could, I suppose. Meanwhile, for disturbing US weirdos, nobody's better than Lucinda Williams, who used a heroin song as the title of her album "Essence". http://www.amazon.com/Essence-Lucinda-Williams/dp/B00005B8GS Furthest I ever went was to sneak sips of Paragoric (opium) as a little kid. Reed seemed to glorify it. Scary. Williams might too, sort of. "Rebel" is one thing, but damn. I can't go that way. Steve

Author:  Steve [ Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sinead or ?

Dennis wrote:
In Sweden they are even proud of the Swedish Chef in the Muppet Show.

You heard about his kid, right?

Author:  Dennis [ Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sinead or ?

I had never seen this before, don't know him either. I got rid of my TV in the beginning of January. I can see where he got his inspiration from, but I still cannot get the Swedish humor...


Author:  Steve [ Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sinead or ?

Sorry. Hope things go okay there.

Few notes:
Apparently this is Child Abuse Prevention month in the US. I had no idea. Locally, a couple days ago there was a rally (which I found out about after the fact) at the courthouse with pinwheels, mayors issuing proclamations, etc. The little girl beaten to death by her parents five or six years ago--the incident which lit my fuse--still figures prominently. From memory after having watched a news video clip: locally the court deals with about 600 child abuse cases/year--county population maybe ~110,000--apparently more than half of them sex-related.

Today is "Blue Sunday" though I can't find much more information than that. Blue is the color adopted for the cause; I'm guessing there's been an effort to suggest that church sermons today center on being kinder/more respectful to children...

There is a lunch scheduled mid-month that I hope to attend, just to learn what I can about what efforts are being made and more about the people involved.

Nationally: the New Mexico state legislature has passed a bill banning school corporal punishment; it still needs the governor's signature in order to become law. She's Republican, meaning her supporters are those which favor 'local control', but after reading what she's had to say so far, my feeling is that there's a somewhat better than 50% chance that she will sign it.

In June a "Global Summit on Ending Corporal Punishment and Promoting Positive Discipline" will be held in Texas. The list of speakers and topics at this thing looks great.

Two more US-based organizations have sprung up. Unlimited Justice, sponsored by clothing designer Marc Ecko. dedicated to ending school corporal punishment. The second is Spare the Kids, an effort of Stacey Patton and friends, aimed at ending cruelty both at school and at home, specifically targeting black Americans.





Author:  Bernard [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sinead or ?

Steve wrote:
The little girl beaten to death by her parents five or six years ago--the incident which lit my fuse--still figures prominently.

Six years ago? Children are beaten to death in the United States EVERY WEEK!
See: http://badbreeders.net/

However, I am delighted to learn about these initiatives. Activism like this will achieve a lot more than badgering a handful of people here-and-there to read Alice Miller. Thanks for the links!

Author:  Steve [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sinead or ?

The school thing is particularly stupid because where it exists, beaters have complete immunity. Short of killing or practically killing someone, no government or law enforcement agency will get involved. Schoolteachers in these situations have a god-like status that not even parents 'enjoy'.

For that matter, God doesn't enjoy it either: http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/26/members-of-aleitheia-bible-church-in-wisconsin-charged-with-abus/

I've forgotten who said it, but "you can't define abuse by the room in which it occurs." In state-run schoolrooms, wherever beatings are tolerated by the community they are never defined as anything but "discipline". (Take note, socialists! ;) )

I'm never surprised to see a headline about some kid being killed by his parents. It's the same with sex abuse stories. For a while it seemed as though the local paper reported a new "shaken baby" death almost every other week. There's almost no point to reading these things; they're the same story with different names inserted.

It's not that Aiyana's death was particularly cruel and gruesome. It was, but what I mean is that I'm sure there have been worse. This one I think woke me to the fact that O'Connor's "real enemy" - the underlying one - isn't the perpetrator. Miller is right that "we put these people in prison because we don't know what else to do with them". She's right that as adults they are personally responsible. Their own childhood experiences provide an explanation for their impulses but no excuse for their decisions or behavior. Maybe one reason this whole thing seems so difficult is because "philosophically" speaking, it touches directly on "determinism vs. free will". But it's really not that hard. And "love of knowledge" has nothing to do with it anyway. Slavery was as common in ancient Greek culture as anywhere else. And that's really where this goes. Stronger human beings telling weaker ones: I OWN you.

Nobody reported that Aiyana had any substantial problems prior to the time that she and Christian came to live with Michelle in February 2004. Christian and Michelle, however, reported that Aiyana was defiant and disrespectful to Michelle; fell over, intentionally injuring herself; would not stop picking her scabs; regressed in her toilet training; reverted to crawling; and refused to eat or would eat condiments out of the refrigerator. They claimed that these behaviors happened irregularly: a period of normalcy would be followed by a period of misbehavior.

Michelle and Christian instituted a series of disciplinary measures in an attempt to control Aiyana’s behavior. Aiyana’s hands were tied to keep her from picking her scabs. She was diapered. She was tied to a chair or a baby gate. She was forced to sleep on a plastic tray on the floor, without bedding, when she relieved herself in her bed. She was force-fed ground up food when she wouldn’t eat. She was locked in her unheated room when she was disrespectful. Michelle spanked Aiyana so hard that her hand hurt. After that, she spanked Aiyana with a cutting board. When the cutting board broke, she continued to beat her with the pieces. When Aiyana was disrespectful, Michelle threatened to tape her mouth shut. Michelle took a series of photographs over a period of weeks or months showing Aiyana lying in her own excrement and tied to her bed, the baby gate, and the faucet in the bathtub. The photos were hung on the wall and Aiyana was forced to look at them to coerce her to behave.

These disciplinary measures preceded the wedding, but had not yet progressed in severity. Aiyana appeared well both at the time of the wedding and two weeks prior to her death when Michelle lunched with a friend.

On March 16, 2005 Aiyana was found, dead, with abrasions and contusions all over her body, inflicted on more than one occasion. She had been beaten by Michelle with a paddle and by Christian with a belt. Michelle had left bite marks on her arm. Over the course of more than a week she had become so malnourished and so dehydrated that she had lost her body fat, suffered liver damage, her extremities were swollen and her bowel was impacted. There were wounds on both wrists and one ankle caused by the ligatures with which Michelle had bound her. Michelle had taped her mouth with duct tape after feeding her an unpalatable mixture on which she had gagged. She was bound and gagged throughout the night.

As severe as these injuries were, however, they were not the cause of death. Aiyana’s death was caused by four or five blows to the head, inflicted with a blunt object. The beating caused a subdural hematoma and optic nerve hemorrhage. Neither Michelle nor Christian nor Michelle’s two children have related a story which accounts for these injuries. Michelle admits beating Aiyana with her hands and the cutting board, and the marks on Aiyana’s head are consistent with the cutting board. In June 2005, Michelle admitted that she killed Aiyana. The court finds that Michelle Gauvin intentionally inflicted the fatal blows to the head of Aiyana Gauvin.

The aggravating element of torture has been proved beyond a reasonable doubt. The above-mentioned punishment, injuries and pain were intentionally inflicted by Michelle Gauvin for the purpose of coercing and persuading Aiyana Gauvin to change her behavior.

And her sister told the court: "Toward the end she didn't even cry. She just sat there."

Fuse lit.


Author:  Bernard [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sinead or ?

I don't know what "Take note, socialists!" is supposed to mean. In all the states where legislators concerned for social welfare have any influence corporal punishment has already been outlawed in public schools. The 20 states that still allow physical 'discipline' in state schools are all Republican/conservative strongholds.... mostly in the Bible Belt. In California, for example, only private schools are exempt from the ban on corporal punishment. See: http://www.christian-attorney.net/corpo ... nking.html

Of course, not all Christians believe in "Spare the rod - spoil the child". I was particularly encouraged by your link to the "Global Summit on Ending Corporal Punishment" at the Southern Methodist University.... because on their site I found this.

Author:  Steve [ Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sinead or ?

I think one of the interesting aspects of the SMU conference might be the participation of the representative from Save the Children Sweden. Like Vachss' organization PROTECT, the US branch of Save the Children takes no position on corporal punishment at all so far as I can tell, no explanation offered. I suppose though it's for the same reason as PROTECT's: in the US, to beat or not to beat is "too divisive" a question. And I didn't mean for that to come out sounding Hamlet-ish.

But gimme a break. The correct quote is "Take note socialists ;)". That's a wink there, not a smirk. Yes it's a tease. I could argue all day about how at its core socialism is as overtly misanthropic, abjectly manipulative, self-centered, narcissistic and destructive as religion, but the truth is I don't care what irrational beliefs and fears rule people so long as they're decent to kids and allow them grow into whatever the heck they feel like. I'm WAY more on the side of any religious person, for instance, who would stand up and protect a kid than I'd be on the side of a non-religious child-beater--whom I'd consider a foe. And there are plenty of each. Same goes for political persuasions.

It's definitely interesting how, especially as a direct result of the Enlightenment, the US has the cultural problems it does. Probably the simplest answer is just that we are the scum of the earth. Samuel Johnson was right to say the colonists were nothing but traitors and criminals. My understanding is that the state of Georgia was deliberately established as a British penal colony. Who knows how many of the rest of our ancestors were kicked out of wherever they came from (for being jerks no one could stand) as much as they escaped oppression? Certainly plenty were brought here and made into slaves. A (not-necessarily-good) comedian just a couple years ago said something about kids here who are beaten are either black or the children of recent immigrants. His parents came from India, I believe.

Without being "Bright-sided" about it (I'm a huge Barbara Ehrenreich fan by the way), I think the good news is that the Enlightenment ain't dead yet, not even close to it. Seems to me it's really just begun. It stands for science, sure. But more than that I think it stands for human rights. It's like Superman, really. It stands for Freedom. And Truth, and Justice--And the American Way.


Take it easy, seriously, it'll be all right.


Author:  Bernard [ Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sinead or ?

That 'comedian' is another type of child abuse apologist. He's implying that child abuse is mainly the fault of immigrants.

Author:  Dennis [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sinead or ?

Back to Sinead... Another person I can strike off my list of people I respect. This is what anti-depressives do to you: they take away your soul, they numb you down until you become average again. And what an ugly tattoos she got as well:


Author:  Dennis [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sinead or ?

Did Sinead have a lobotomy? Or has she just lost her mind? Two weeks after she got married, they announced a divorce after Christmas, and then they have patched up again. You can read all her immature statements and crazy acting out here.

Author:  Dennis [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sinead or ?

Sinead made a public announcement today:

With enormous regret I must announce that I have to cancel all touring for the year as am very unwell due to bi polar disorder.

As you all know I had a very serious breakdown between December and March and I had been advised by my doctor not to go on tour but didn't want to 'fail' or let anyone down as the tour was already booked to coincide with album release. So very stupidly I ignored his advice to my great detriment, attempting to be stronger than I actually am.

I apologise sincerely for any difficulties this may cause.

Sinead is another person who once touched the surface of the roots of pain but chose to cover it up instead. Except the covering up doesn't pay on the long run.

Author:  Dennis [ Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sinead or ?

27 years after Sinead O'Connor discovered the first few books by Alice Miller, she finally got her hand on a copy of "Breaking Down the Wall of Silence" and realized that she needs help. Maybe she even read this thread, who knows... On a recent Facebook post she wrote:

I'm putting myself into a hospital which specializes in the treatment of chronic trauma. Supposedly it's the best hospital in America for trauma survivors so I'm excited to go. It will be a six month treatment course. So I will be off radar (Facebook) until November. Meanwhile please know that I not only stand by, but am proud of every post I have made on this page in the last few weeks and days.
For those out there who are like me, fellow survivors...
I recommend the below book, Breaking Down The Wall Of Silence.
I send you love, and I will be back on FB in November.

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